Henri Erkelens, Sr., (BSO violinist, 1920-1951) oral history interview: Erkelens, Bernice, interviewee, Erkelens, Henry, Jr., interviewee (Side A); James Pappoutsakis (BSO flute, 1937-1978) oral history interview: Pappoutsakis, Louise, interviewee (Side B), September 10, 1994; September 11, 1994, 2023-08-02T00:00:00+00:00

Cassette 61: Oral history conducted by Robert Ripley on September 10, 1994, Bernice Erkelens is wife of Henry Erkelens, Sr., Henri Erkelens Jr. is son of Henri Erkelens, Sr, See also VHS 2 for video recording of this interview (Side A); Oral history conducted by Robert Ripley on September 11, 1994, Louise Pappoutsakis is the wife of James Pappoutsakis (Side B).

PARTIAL TRANSCRIPT

Tape 61, Side A

Interviewer: Bob Ripley Interviewee: Bernice Erkelens and Henri Erkelens, Jr. Subject: Henri Erkelens Date: September 10, 1994 Location: St Augustine, Florida

0:16 INTERVIEW BEGINS

0:51-3:30 early life, born in 1890 in the Netherlands; an uncle was a violinist, but immediate family was not; uncle was his first teacher, then he attended Conservatory at the Hague; in senior year at the Conservatory, was the first violinist in the Conservatory orchestra, but did not get along with conductor; after fight with this conductor, left to perform in Germany

3:30-5:00 was invited to perform in Germany, so he spent a year there; went to Java to teach music and played in Netherlandish clubs; then returned to Holland after World War I

5:00-6:20 heard of strike at BSO and was encouraged to go; arrived for an audition at the BSO wearing Javanese clothing; played for MONTEUX in 1920 and got the job; remained at the orchestra until 1951

6:20-10:43 after time in orchestra, came to Florida and fished; Bernice heard of conductor at Jacksonville Symphony, she tricked Henri into auditioning in Jacksonville, where he played viola until around 1971; spent one winter with a fellow Jacksonville performer doing shows in in North Carolina

10:43-13:11 story of Arthur FIEDLER; Erkelens did not get along with FIEDLER; Fiedler asked him to play viola, and he did;

13:11-16:03 THEODOROWITSC and LANGENDOEN wrote down sayings from KOUSSEVITZKY in their music; friendship with MCDONALD, George MADSEN, MARIOTTI

16:03-20:40 story of KOUSSEVITZKY at Tanglewood trying to communicate what he wanted; because KOUSSEVITZKY did not know the music well, SAN ROMA and ZIGHERA went to play the scores for him; story of conflict between KOUSSEVITZKY and MESSINA;

20:40-23:20 story of playing bridge with BURGIN and MESSINA; BURGIN won a lot of money in an unusual game;

23:20-24:30 memories of Benny FIEDLER getting robbed

24:30-27:50 did some music outside the orchestra; taught as well, including at the Boston Conservatory; a friend of Bernice took lessons from Henri and helped the two of them meet

28:10-34:25 memories from Henri Jr.: friendship with TAPLEY, dated Arden TAPLEY; took music lessons with father but he was not a good teacher; memories of purchasing a Steinway that had belonged to GUNDERSON; personal reflections on his father as a kind, disciplinary man

34:25-38:07 reflections on Harry DICKSON; memories of YAKIA as conductor; comparisons between FIEDLER and Leonard BERNSTEIN;

38:07-38:50 hobbies; was friends with a man who made fishing rods, so he learned to make these too

38:50-42:00 Henri's illness and ultimate death in Florida

42:00-43:53 memories of playing during and after Tanglewood season; more memories of TAPLEY and LANGENDOEN's families;

44:54-47:47 postscript: Erkelens taught at the Deaf/Blind school, taught blind students at the house; Henri heard the student playing and wanted to teach them because their playing was not right; John WALLACE was the president of the school who coordinated with him; worked with a blind pianist in Java

47:47 INTERVIEW CONCLUDES

Tape 61, Side B

Interviewer: Bob Ripley Interviewee: Louise Pappoutsakis Subject: James Pappoutsakis Date: September 11, 1994 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL

0:09 INTERVIEW BEGINS

0:35-1:53 early life, born in Cairo, Egypt; parents were Greek; father came to United States first, then mother, he arrived at age 4;

1:53-6:20 began taking the flute while at Boston Latin; attended New England Conservatory; studied with Harry MOSCOVITCH, then George LAURENT; gave a concert at the Boston Public Library; Bernard ZIGHERA heard the performance and invited Jimmy to audition;

6:20-7:03 friendship with Arthur FIEDLER

7:07-10:00 personal life, met wife while she was studying harp at the Conservatory through a mutual friend; she studied harp with ZIGHERA; Louise served as a substitute harpist in the BSO for a year when CAUGHEY was out

10:00-14:44 impressions of the BSO; memories of concert in Providence; wore concert clothes on the train down, but on the way back, was put into special train compartment with KOUSSEVITZKY; story of KOUSSEVITZKY asking if they were married; Louise was a qualified musician when she left the Conservatory; was afraid of KOUSSEVITZKY, felt he acted like a king;

14:44-16:07 Louise taught at Stephens College in Missouri after leaving BSO

17:28-17:59 married in 1942; James did not go into military service as he had bad eyesight

18:18-20:33 taught at five schools: Wellesley, Brandeis, New England Conservatory, Longy School, and Boston Conservatory; enjoyed teaching very much although he had been apprehensive; story of teaching at Beaver Country Day School

20:33-21:43 chamber music; played with BODKEY, an organist, at the Conservatory; played quintets and other various small groups

21:43-22:24 liked to build and work with his hands, but did not have many other hobbies

22:24-25:03 promotion to assistant principal; impressions of RATEAU, a French flutist; played second flute and assistant, which was unusual (it's usually third flute); served as first flute during trip to Japan

25:18-26:11 George LAURENT was his teacher at the Conservatory; Bill KAPLAN and George MATHSON were also LAURENT's pupils

26:11-27:08 experience between Tanglewood and the season; took the time off and visited the Cape

27:08-31:00 decision to retire after illness caused by smoking; encouraged to retire by Todd PERRY, was paid to not play for a year; passed away one year later; continued teaching for his last year of life

31:00-34:40 travel to Greece as a family; memories of James' parents; James spoke Greek all his life; brother also became a professional musician

34:42-37:38 personal reflections on James: kind, quiet, "liked a good time", very serious and devoted; his students formed a scholarship in his name to give to flute students; others dedicated a scholarship at Tanglewood to him; had many students and left a legacy

37:50-38:50 Bob Ripley tells story of James' gentlemanly behavior while driving home one night

40:04-41:14 only made one solo recording with a chamber music group

41:30 INTERVIEW CONCLUDES